Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail-27A0B26B-9031-489C-A39C-00B4082A1FDA"; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha-256 --Apple-Mail-27A0B26B-9031-489C-A39C-00B4082A1FDA Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-790D883B-92A4-4F0D-B193-E5F9FF5677B0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --Apple-Mail-790D883B-92A4-4F0D-B193-E5F9FF5677B0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I like this proposal.=20 Thanks! Regards, Uri > On Jul 8, 2022, at 09:13, Vadim Lyubashevsky wrote: >=20 > =EF=BB=BF > Hi Taylor, all, >=20 > On Fri, 2022-07-08 at 13:03 +0000, Taylor R Campbell wrote: >>> Date: Fri, 08 Jul 2022 11:47:30 +0200 >>> From: Vadim Lyubashevsky >>>=20 >>>> On Thu, 2022-07-07 at 11:50 +0000, 'John Mattsson' via pqc-forum wrote= : >>>> The current specification of CRYSTALS-Dilithium provides two >>>> versions. One deterministic and one randomized. I strongly think NIST >>>> should also standardize a hedged version where the seed is derived >>>> from a random string, a key, and the message. >>>=20 >>> The "hedged" version can simply replace the current randomized version >>> which does not take the key and the message as inputs. Since the key is >>> short and the message is already hashed anyway, including these two >>> things in the seed creation will probably have a negligible performance >>> effect. >>>=20 >>> If people think it's a good idea, it should be easy to incorporate and >>> I suspect that it's better having just 2 versions of the algorithm >>> instead of 3. >>=20 >> Don't have two or three versions -- have just one! >>=20 >> Signature creation should be defined to be a deterministic function of >>=20 >> 1. secret key, >> 2. message, and >> 3. a randomization string. >>=20 >> - Users can make deterministic signatures by setting the randomization >> string to something fixed in an application like the empty string. >=20 > This is exactly what the two versions of the algorithm would look like us= ing the "deterministic" and "hedged" modes. If you think that this counts a= s just one version, then great! >=20 > Best, > Vadim >=20 > --=20 > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups= "pqc-forum" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an= email to pqc-forum+unsubscribe@list.nist.gov. > To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/a/list= .nist.gov/d/msgid/pqc-forum/f637a042d20b89ee65c687364989fdb085581dfd.camel%= 40gmail.com. --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= pqc-forum" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to pqc-forum+unsubscribe@list.nist.gov. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/a/list.n= ist.gov/d/msgid/pqc-forum/86C23FAD-E858-4EE4-B847-CCBE0F418D38%40ll.mit.edu= . --Apple-Mail-790D883B-92A4-4F0D-B193-E5F9FF5677B0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I like this proposal. 

Thanks!

Regards,
Uri

On Jul 8, 2022, at 09:13, Vadim Lyu= bashevsky <vadim1980@gmail.com> wrote:

=EF=BB=BF Hi Taylor, all,

On Fri, 2022-07-08 at 13:03 +00= 00, Taylor R Campbell wrote:
Date: Fri, 08 Jul 2022 11:47:30 +0200
From:= Vadim Lyubashevsky <vadim1980@gm= ail.com>

On Thu, 2022-07-07 at 11:50 +0= 000, 'John Mattsson' via pqc-forum wrote:
The current specification of CRYSTALS-Dilithium provides two
versions. One deterministic and one randomized. I strongly think NI= ST
should also standardize a hedged version where the seed is= derived
from a random string, a key, and the message.

The "hedged" version can simply replace= the current randomized version
which does not take the key a= nd the message as inputs. Since the key is
short and the mess= age is already hashed anyway, including these two
things in t= he seed creation will probably have a negligible performance
= effect.

If people think it's a good idea, it s= hould be easy to incorporate and
I suspect that it's better h= aving just 2 versions of the algorithm
instead of 3.

Don't have two or three versions -- have = just one!

Signature creation should be defined= to be a deterministic function of

1. secret k= ey,
2. message, and
3. a randomization string.<= /div>

- Users can make deterministic signatures by setti= ng the randomization
  string to something fixed in an a= pplication like the empty string.

Thi= s is exactly what the two versions of the algorithm would look like using t= he "deterministic" and "hedged" modes. If you think that this counts as jus= t one version, then great!

Best,
Vadim

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To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to pqc-forum+un= subscribe@list.nist.gov.
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